Episode Summary
A special Teacher Talk episode for this final episode of the year! Amy has conversations with THREE of her piano teachers.
Barb Grube is Amy’s first piano teacher. She has been teaching piano lessons in Fort Recovery, Ohio since 1984. She recently retired from her job playing organ in church after 50 years but continues to teach a small handful of piano students from her home.
Kathryn Grile was Amy’s high school piano teacher. She has a BA and MA in Piano/Organ Performance from Ball State University. Kathryn recently retired from two roles: 29 years teaching Piano Pedagogy, Piano and Theory at Taylor University where she coordinated the Center for Musical Development and 44 years as the Director of Music at Eden Church in Muncie, Indiana. She currently teaches piano in her home studio in Royerton, Indiana and is Director of Music at St. Andrew Presbyterian Church in Muncie, Indiana.
Amy studied with Lori Rhoden when working on her Master’s Degree at Ball State University. Dr. Rhoden is Professor of Piano and Coordinator of Group Piano/Piano Pedagogy at Ball State University. She holds a DMA in Piano Pedagogy /Performance from the University of South Carolina. Her research interests include sight-reading and performance pedagogy.
Items Mentioned
Teaching Piano: The Synthesis of Mind, Ear, and Body by Max W. Camp
“The Box” by Kathryn Beard (mentioned by my high school piano teacher, Kathy Grile – now out of print)
Transcript
Amy: As teachers, it’s extremely nostalgic to have former students keep in touch and to get to see where life takes them, especially when they choose music as a career path. Do you keep in contact with your former teachers? I’m lucky in that I live and teach in the state, not only that I grew up in, but where I obtained both my undergraduate and graduate degrees.
My high school and graduate piano teachers, who live only an hour from me, now have dual roles as both teacher and colleague. We even sometimes run into each other at state conferences. While my first piano teacher also only lives an hour away and in the same location that was just five minutes from my childhood home, we had lost touch until I ran into her a couple of years ago.
I wanted to bring something special to this 50th episode. So today I’m connecting with three of my five piano teachers. Unfortunately, I could not connect with my middle school teacher whom I was with for just a couple of years, or the teacher I studied with at Huntington university during my undergraduate If anything, I hope this episode inspires you to reach out and find a way to reconnect with your former teachers, if even for a moment.
If you’re listening to this in real time, maybe consider dropping a Christmas card in the mail for an easy start. Enjoy!
Welcome to the Piano Pantry Podcast, where together, we live life as independent music teachers. I’m your host, Amy Chaplin. In this space, we talk about all things teacher life related, from organizing our studios, to getting dinner on the table, and all that comes between. You’ll get loads of easily actionable tips on organizing and managing your studio, while balancing life and home.
The first conversation I’m sharing with you today is with Barb Grube, my first piano teacher. She has been teaching piano lessons in Fort Recovery, Ohio, since 1984. Fort Recovery is just across the state line of Indiana, where I lived, literally about a half of a mile from the state line. She recently retired from her job playing organ in church after 50 years, but continues to teach a small handful of piano students from her home.
Welcome to the Piano Pantry Podcast. Barb. I can’t tell you how excited I am. This is honestly a little bit surreal. Would you be able to start by telling the listeners a little bit about your background and how you came to where you are today in your journey as a piano teacher?
Barb: I started when I was in the second grade with my teacher, Mrs. Sauer. And I took lessons for probably seven or eight years. And my mom had another baby. This is six or seventh in the family, and I was needed at home. And then in my high school years, I played for the band the piano for the band, the swing band is what we called it, and then I took lessons from a lady in Greenville, Mrs. Frantz. And she helped me with the chords and putting things and improvising. And then I didn’t do too much when I was in college, but then later on is when I started, okay, what can I do for a living? Here you don’t make a living at it, but
Amy: We’re trying to
Barb: And I thought now I had people approach me and say, Barb, could you give piano lessons to my daughter? Or my daughter’s playing in church? Could you do something to help her out? That’s where it started. I started in 1984, and I’m still teaching today.
Amy: Wow. Your piano teacher growing up. Did you take lessons from a local teacher yourself?
Barb: Yes
Amy: Okay. And did you grow up in this same area?
Barb: Yes.
Amy: Okay.
Barb: I’ve always lived in Fort Recovery all my life.
Amy: Okay. And did you have multiple teachers? Growing up or?
Barb: Yes, I had my first one, Mrs. Sauer, and then a Mrs. Frantz. And then I had Becky Kurgan. I don’t know if you’ve heard her. She helped me and then one of my son’s school classmates. I worked with her for a while, and everybody gave me something more to add.
Amy: Every teacher adds new things to our mix.
Barb: Yes.
Amy: Now, you mentioned going to college. Did you go to school for music or what was your background there?
Barb: No. I went to Miami Jacobs in Dayton, and it was just a nine-month course. For bookkeeping, and that has helped me here because I not only played the piano in church or played the organ in church, I also worked at church in the office and that helped my accounting background that way that’s, that was the extent of my college.
Amy: So you played the organ as well, and I know you told me you have. You just recently retired from 50 years of playing the organ at your church, which, congratulations.
Barb: Thank you.
Amy: Did you learn, did you teach yourself to play the organ or did your teachers teach you organ alongside piano?
Barb: My piano teacher, my first piano teacher, also taught me the organ. And at that time, what you did was you read the notes. You don’t use chords like the kids like to use today. She helped me, and then my aunt helped me also. Her name was Margie Vogel. So I just picked up from here and there and then started playing at church. And
Amy: I think you taught me a little bit of organ as well now that we’re talking about this because I mean I remember learning a little organ in elementary school because my grandma was an organist and our church had an organ which I played it a little bit, but I never really took off with it. Do you remember? Did I take some organ lessons from you?
Barb: I think you did, Amy. Because the organ that I had here in my house was the same as the organ you had in your church. So you could easily. Practice on it. Practice on it.
Amy: Wow, I had forgotten about that until just this moment.
Tell us a little bit about your studio over the years. So I was with you in the eighties. How has your teaching in your studio changed, grown, developed, and evolved since you first opened your doors as a piano teacher?
Barb: Not a whole lot has changed. I’ve got a better piano, but I think you pract you played on this piano. I started out with a little spinet, and then alongside of it, I had an upright piano, and then the Make room for the organ. I had to take the upright out, so it’s pretty much the way it was.
Amy: And you said this is a Story and Clark, right? So this is the one that you said that I played off when I was with you. And if I started lessons when I was seven, I would have started with you when I was, I think it was seven. And I’m pretty sure I took lessons all the way through elementary school with you. So it would have been through the early 90s, like maybe through 92, 93, something like that?
Barb: Probably.
Amy: And then this is something I will always remember about you, just that you were, like, you had the foresight then To say to my mom, I know it’s time to go on to another teacher. And I like as a teacher now I look back, and I like to think so highly of you because it’s hard to do that. And I think a lot of teachers don’t do that or just don’t know how to do that or. Think that they have to hold on to every student that they possibly can, and
Barb: I knew your ambitions, and your – the way you played was getting beyond me. And I had to let you go, even though I did not want to.
Amy: I know, because we want to hold on to those students, right?
Barb: I know! Those are the ones I can sit back and go, Oh, all my work has paid off! Your work too, but Yeah, so So, no, I had to let you go and I shed some tears on that, and
Amy: I’ve done so recently myself, like not often, but sometimes you just know when it’s right for a student. For example, I had a student a few years ago who just really intensely loves jazz music, and she wants to develop her skills in jazz improvisation, and it got her to about the intermediate level of playing it. I just didn’t feel like I was the right teacher who could give her that next level of what she wanted.
I found a jazz teacher in Fort Wayne and contacted them and said, Hey, would you be willing to take her? I just know that what the student needs is not something I can give. And I think it’s good as teachers to, to know what your strengths are and to know, like when it’s time to let go.
So, speaking of letting go, I think I asked you when we first talked on the phone if you remembered the name of the person that you sent me to. And it was a person in Celina, Ohio, and you said you didn’t remember, right?
Barb: I don’t remember.
Amy: Okay, so I was driving here with my parents down to Fort Recovery, and my mom said, your dad remembers the name?
Who does? I was like, you’re kidding. I would have never expected Dad to remember because he never took me to lessons. Mom, no. He said the last name was Zimmerman. I remember her name was Amy because my name is Amy. Amy Zimmerman. Amy Zimmerman. Yes. Now, I was only with her for maybe two or three years, I think, through middle school before I went on to Kathy Grile in Muncie, who is going to be in the next interview for my high school studies. But what I remember is her mom was a piano teacher, and she had a full studio, and she couldn’t take me. So she basically gave me to her daughter and her daughter was a cheerleader in high school and she was getting ready to go to college and she also helped me with my cheerleading as well. I was trying out for 6th and 7th-grade cheerleading, and I would go to their house and do piano lessons and have a little lesson on cheerleading, which I never made, unfortunately, but I was the manager because I was organized.
Barb: And I’ve noticed that today’s students have other interests. They don’t want to just stick to the piano because it’s just them. Whereas if they go out like you were, think about cheerleading. That way, they’re with friends.
Amy: Yeah, exactly.
Barb: It’s because that piano is a lonely sport.
Amy: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Cause you’re like, you’re the only one playing it and learning it on your own and having lessons on your own, unless. You’re lucky to be in a group situation or something like that. Speaking of, did you ever do group classes? I know some teachers do only group classes, and some do them as supplemental. Do you, did you ever hold like any kind of group classes?
Barb: Not really a group. If a brother and sister or sisters or two boys come in together and want to start taking lessons, then I will do it as a group. Okay. But then after a while, I feel that it’s better if you maybe do some individual. You have to work individually.
Instead of just all class because my own children didn’t think I knew enough about pianos, so, they took from another teacher here in town, and she had them in group lessons they didn’t have that much time to play individually during the lesson.
Amy: I think I had a friend that maybe took some lessons in that group setting from that teacher. Speaking of your children, when we talked on the phone, you told me a story. Do you remember that story? Can you share that with the listeners? It makes me laugh. Okay
Barb: I believe it was two of our children. They were in high school, in the high school band, and they had a band contest to go to, and I had forgotten about it, and it was a Saturday morning, and I thought, I was in the car to take them, and then your mom brought you in for piano lessons, and said, I gotta take my kids to school, they’ve gotta be at the band. And your mom says. I’ll take them.
Amy: And you can give my daughter piano lessons. Yes, exactly. Then I said, that is exactly something that my mom would do. She’s the kind of person who would be like just let me take your kids to school. That’s no problem.
Barb: Yeah. And she did. She said they’ll have to tell me where to go, but it worked out, and I really thanked her for that. I’m not even. Yeah.
Amy: So growing up, I only lived. I think we were maybe three or maybe five miles west of here. It’s almost a straight shot to my childhood home. And when I first started piano lessons, like I said, I was seven and you, I think you remember this, that I didn’t actually have a piano. I was one of those. Kids, that my parents didn’t want to buy a piano until they knew for sure that I was going to take to the piano,
Barb: didn’t you practice at your grandmother’s?
Amy: It was my neighbor’s house. Your neighbor’s house. Yes, Pauline Williamson. She was just a block over. And she had, I don’t know why I remember this, but she had a white piano. It’s one of those things silly things that stick in your mind, but I think my mom took me over there for months, if not almost a whole entire year. Before that, and she said she had asked, she’s I told Barb, does she have it? And you said, she has it.
Barb: And sure did.
Amy: We kept going. So, Barb, what is your absolute favorite thing about piano teaching?
Barb: I think interacting with the kids. I just love the kids coming in here and asking how they are today. Then, I talk to them, and I try to make them feel comfortable. And then when that child gets that, aha, I understand now, that really makes me happy. That I’ve got them, just like you did with you, she’s got it. Yeah, I think that’s my most favorite thing. Oh yeah, when they come in here, some of them are so scared, some of them are so tiny they can’t even sit on the bench. I just try to make them feel better and I think that’s my favorite thing, interacting with the kids.
Amy: Now, have you done recitals? I know we talked about how you did small recitals here in your house. Do you still do that as well?
Barb: No. I and then we went onto the church when I could get the church, . We had recitals in the church, but since my numbers have dwindled there for a while, for several years, I took them to the nursing home. And played for the nursing home residents.
Amy: I think that’s a wonderful thing. I’ve done that. I don’t do it every year with my students, but. I think it’s just good for the kids to get out there and just to see that they can brighten someone’s day.
Barb: And then the residents too. When I have them, the kids play older songs that the residents would remember. They start singing and knowing, and that brings some cheer to them also.
Amy: And it’s a good performance opportunity for the kids, too, in a low-pressure setting. So what about the most challenging thing you find as a piano teacher?
Barb: Getting the children to practice. I’m sure you’ve noticed that.
Amy: I figured there was a 50 50 chance that wasn’t the answer.
Barb: Oh, yes. Getting them to practice. Some will practice, and I don’t like to tattle on them, but sometimes I have to tell the parents. They need to work a little bit harder. They can do it, but, don’t just come in and say Oh, okay. Or sometimes I’ll have them grade themselves. What grade would you give yourself for playing that piece? It needs more work. I go, yeah. I expect an A. And they know it.But I think and then I will ask the student, Do you want to take lessons? Or are you being forced to take lessons?
Amy: That makes a big difference. It does. Yeah, for sure. And that’s telling to you. Just to be aware if it’s something that the parent is, is having the student do or if the student really truly desires that themselves. Do you have – I know we’ve talked about a few memories already of our time together – is there any other little memories that you have recalled since we have reconnected?
Barb: I just know that you would come in, and you’d sit down, and You would just have confidence about you. And I thought, okay, this is going to be great. I can just sit back and listen,
Amy: that sounds about like me! That is funny. If you could get the entire world of piano teachers together in one place and just say something heartfelt to all of them, what would it be?
Barb: Just have fun with your kids. Give them a variety of songs and just have fun with them. I think that’s the way I teach anyways.
Amy: Good advice. Keep the fun in it.
Barb: Yes, I think it is. When you’re out and about, a lot of times you’ll see somebody will come up and say, you were my piano teacher. And I’m looking at them like, ah.
Amy: That’s a good question actually. Yeah. So because, I mean, you have, you’ve taught so much.
Barb: Yes, I should have kept track of them, but I haven’t. Yeah. I’ll bet I’ve worked over 200, maybe years. Oh yeah. Something like that. Yes, and then they’ll come back and they’ll ask me to play for their weddings. That makes me feel good, too. You go into the hospital, I’ve got students that are nurses, doctors, pharmacists, and probably the one I remember the most is I have a former student who is now a Catholic priest.
Amy: Oh my!
Barb: Yeah.
Amy: Neat!
Barb: And he still remembers me, in fact we just did a mass together in May.
Amy: Okay, oh, I bet that was special.
Barb: It was very special. I’m close to his family, too. Yeah, but no, you invite me to his ordination everything. So yeah, I even it gave lessons to some grandchildren.
Amy: Okay. Yeah, Oh, so that’s sweet.
Barb: Yeah, so now we’ve got one great-granddaughter, but she’s only 10 months. I’m giving her a piano for Christmas. Oh, nice! A little bitty fiddle. Yeah. But he goes home with her,
Amy: Grandma makes sure she has music, right?
Barb: That’s right. I’m going to get her started young.
Amy: Oh, that’s sweet. How many grandchildren do you have in total, then, and now?
Barb: We have 11.
Amy: Oh, my.
Barb: I’ve got one married and four to be married in the next 14 months.
Amy: Oh, that’s exciting congratulations, Grandma.
Barb: It’s fun.
Amy: Thank you so much for being on the podcast today, Barb. It has been such a delight getting to catch up with you.
Barb: Same here, Amy.
Amy: My next conversation is with my high school piano teacher, Kathy Greil. Kathy has a BA and MA in Piano and Organ Performance from Ball State University. She recently retired from two different roles. 29 years of teaching piano pedagogy. Piano in Theory at Taylor University, where she coordinated the Center for Musical Development, and 44 years as the Director of Music at Eden Church in Muncie, Indiana. She currently teaches piano in her home in Royerton, Indiana, and is Director of Music at St. Andrew Presbyterian Church in Muncie.
Would you be able to begin by telling our listeners a little about yourself and your background and how you came to where you are today as a piano teacher?
Kathy: Absolutely. I started out probably very young, like at the age of five, and I could watch my mother just perform professional music like Chopin, Polonaise, and just jazz music and hymns and doing a lot of harmonizing to these hymns. I didn’t know all that, but I just looked at her in the way she played as a five-year-old, and I wanted to play like that. Then, after she had been my teacher for several years, she decided she needed more expertise. I needed more expertise too. And so she sent me to Catherine Beard, who actually studied at Juilliard School of Music.
I was really taken aback by her first because her demand for perfection and her absolute opportunity for you to work hard was challenging to me, and I was bounding to determine I was going to do that, especially scales that I didn’t know how to do very well. But she inspired me all my years, and by the time I reached high school, I realized I really, this is what I wanted to do. I want to be a piano teacher.
And then she brought in Pia Sebastiani. International concert woman pianist. It’s wow. I want to play like her, and that brought a whole new dimension to my life. And as a country girl growing up with not that kind of opportunity to see things like that, she opened my world, she would come and visit in our little country studio, and she would critique us and tell us how to do this. So she inspired. It forced me to go to college and study with her for six years.
And so from all of that, you can see that it was that kind of inspiration that really helped me get started to say, that’s what I really want to do. That’s my passion. I can’t wait to do it.
Amy: Now, Catherine Beard, she was from my hometown, if I remember correctly. Is that right?
Kathy: She was actually from New York and the New Jersey area at first. In World War II, she met her husband there. She met him. And they decided to get married and move to Portland, Indiana. So she was a classically trained student going to Juilliard School of Music who ended up in Portland, Indiana, a very small little community. So, she brought New York City life to our little town.
Amy: Do you even know what brought her to Portland? It’s such a small town, like
Kathy: he lived there. That’s his hometown.
Amy: Okay, gotcha. And you lived in Portland as well? That’s where you grew up?
Kathy: That’s where I grew up, yes. Yeah.
Amy: Now, Catherine Beard, she wrote a method, didn’t she? Or a book or series I remember you using with me a little bit.
Kathy: Yes, it was a complete musical. She would write music to fit her students because she just felt at the time that with the very limited pedagogical methods out there, she could write better stuff because that was her specialty, music theory.
So, she started writing all of her own books. They got published. She was writing Articles for the Clavier at that time and really being highlighted and premiered as one of the top teachers in the country and she also was asked to teach over at Taylor University at one time, and she said, No, I’m going to stay home with my studio and keep working here.
Amy: So you studied with Catherine Beard all the way through high school? Yes. Or did you say that you moved to Pia Sebastiani in college? Or when was that transition happening?
Kathy: It happened in college. Pia would come to the studio and just hold studio classes. We would play for her, and then she would critique us. So I got to know her in high school and then we went on then.
Amy: So what college did you attend with her to study at?
Kathy: Ball State University. I went on to I was a performance, a piano, an organ performance major, and I went ahead and got my master’s after I got my graduate.
Amy: And did they have piano pedagogy back then, or was it just piano performance was the degree?
Kathy: It was piano performance with a degree. There were no pedagogical courses offered except for one semester. And so my senior year of college, I went back to Catherine Beard, and I studied with her once a week, and she would hold classes to help us learn how to do pedagogical things, studying different books, different things like that.
So I actually went back to her to finish and start my training and learn how to become a piano teacher. And that’s when I started saying, surely there was a better way to do this because there was no training back then. You didn’t have the variety of methods that you have now. You didn’t have the variety of people out there. You didn’t have any degrees at all in pedagogy. We made up our own.
Amy: So where did you go from there then? Did you open your own studio after you finished your undergrad degree?
Kathy: Oh my gosh. My first piano teaching job was at St. Lawrence Catholic School, and I love teaching group piano. So the nuns auditioned me and hired me to teach group piano in their little school area. And so I would pull kids out of school. We would have little kids come together, and we do the box and have a great deal of fun doing tha.t And then I also taught a few private lessons and then my husband in the meantime, remodeled this tiny little building next to our tiny little house, but it was a huge studio for me.
So I opened up my own studio too, but I started out with 22 students at the St. Lawrence Catholic School, and then I started building my own studio with several children, and I could hold the recitals in this building, so it was a perfect setup. But after 10 years with two kids and a tiny little house, we decided we were moving, so we moved out to the Roritan, Indiana area, and I found a house that they had decided to take the original garage and change it into a game room, and then they built a garage in front of it. And I had a perfect studio set up because the kids could come into the garage area right into my studio. So, a 24 by 20 area was turned into my piano studio.
Amy: That’s where I came to see you.
Kathy: That’s where you came to see me. And I’m still teaching in that area, and it’s my room. It’s my music room. So it’s a great space. He never got his man cave, but I’ve got my music room. So it is chock full.
Amy: You mentioned when you first started teaching at the school, you were doing the box. Yes. So, can you tell our listeners what the box is? Because I know what the box is.
Kathy: The box was something created by Catherine Beard, and we used to have to make it by hand. We’d go out and buy these boxes, and on the top of the box, you would put your hands and you would number your fingers. You open up the inside of the box, and it’s a keyboard with the letters on it, so you could do lots of games and fun things with theory. I call it the hands-on theory box. Because when you have hands on theory box, it’s more fun.
Then, inside the bottom of the box was a way to count. So you made movable counting with quarter notes, half notes, whole notes. And so you put that in the box, and we just made up lots and lots of fun games. Then close the box up and turn it upside down. And we had put a staff on the bottom of it.
Eventually, a friend of ours at study with Catherine Beard, Lisa Worley, patented the box. And that was awesome. Soon, it was all professionally done instead of being hand-drawn. But for years, when I taught pedagogy at Taylor University, I made all the students make all the boxes.
Amy: It’s all before the world of apps, right?
Kathy: The box has traveled all over the world now because when it went out, then students used it and they could use it as a portable thing. And all the students put their music in it. So, no matter where they went in the world, you could use this adaptable hands-on theory box. So it’s always an awesome.
Amy: So you opened your studio, and then I know that you taught at Taylor University for quite a few years. Can you tell us how you got into that and how that job opportunity came up?
Kathy: That’s an interesting story. Cause when I first got married before the children, I auditioned to try out for teaching piano class at Taylor University and was rejected. I said, okay, fine. I’ll just go back to my studio and teach piano.
At that point, I think I started directing choirs, too. But as I evolved into my piano and stuff, then Dr. Richard Parker from Taylor University, who was heading up the Center for Musical Development for Taylor University, where children come from the community and are taught at Taylor University by Taylor students wanted to come over with his group of the pedagogy students and say, Hey, let’s just watch her teach like I’ve done with you before. He saw me taught, and he came back year after year. And finally the opening came up and they asked if I wanted to be the pedagogy teacher.
And for me, it was just a lifelong dream. That was one of my dreams in college. I wanted to have an opportunity to have a school of music. It was a school of music. It was the center for musical development, working with college kids and passing on this love of teaching with children. That’s just, it was just a passion. So we developed this. It was already there, but I was able to take it and just help. Hopefully, a lot of people will grow from that. The teachers, as I said, then they go out into the world and go ahead and spread how to have a great time teaching children music. So
Amy: it’s really wonderful because it’s not usual to have any kind of a pedagogy class at an undergrad level. So it’s a really unique offering that Taylor has.
Kathy: They do. I’m glad they’re still doing it. I’m glad they’re trying to. And find another teacher to continue doing that. I did it for 29 years and decided that it was time to retire from that.
Amy: Yeah. And tell us, retired. So, how are you enjoying your retirement?
Kathy: I think the number one thing is that I finally got a chance to practice, and I’ve just really enjoyed it. Oh, and COVID struck. We were having to reinvent ourselves. Practically too. So that was really a great opportunity to finally say, Kathy, sit down and practice. And I just love it. It’s wow, for one thing, you find out I can still do things again. So I liked that opportunity. And then I think I’ll speak later on about the fact that I didn’t ever figure out that I was going to get into technology like I did because at Taylor, I was very much not into technology, and I felt I needed the younger group like you and other colleagues to say, bring this up in technology. But when COVID struck, I found out, Oh, I can do this. So it was an eye-opener at that point. So not sure that I’ve retired from music at all. I don’t think you will ever retire from music, but I love the opportunity to have more freedom. Not to be so scheduled.
Amy: Yeah, for sure. And spending time with your grandkids, right?
Kathy: I have three grandkids I love. And our daughter lives out in New York City. So I visit her as she comes back and visits. And so, having some time to travel will be nice because my husband has just retired. So we have, we’re still working all that out.
Amy: And your studio at your home, are you still running that?
Kathy: I’m not running it full-time. I have just a few students, and I’m trying to keep the students that are really interested in practicing. It is a very busy world out there. Yes. I want to take piano lessons, but how much do you really want to take it? And how much are you supported at home? I can be a little pickier now.
Amy: What’s your favorite thing about piano teaching?
Kathy: I thought about that a lot. And I think that what I really want to do is help that student really learn how to make beautiful music. And that really involves. Their whole body, it involves that they understand that it’s just not playing notes, it’s not clunk, it’s playing music, and how do you do that? And the best way to do that is to help them to learn to listen.
What are you producing when you’re playing that music? Do you understand that you are an orchestra and that you have to choreograph everything that you’re doing, that you’re actually a dancer, and that you have to become one with the music in order to make it become as musical as possible and as a from the very get go the child doesn’t understand all that unless they are Totally a genius at this but most the time that’s what you’re creating? You want them to make beautiful music, so from the very beginning years when the music’s, you know, a little bit I’m gonna call a little clunkier than you like but then when you see them all of a sudden evolve and then they start listening they start making music That’s what I want to do
Amy: What’s something that you find most challenging as a piano teacher?
Kathy: Ah, that’s an easy one. The students are just so busy. I am trying to help them understand that this is just as important to practice at home as it is to go to any kind of sports practice or any kind of dance practice or anything. This. is as important.
And I think the more important thing is the involvement of the parents, trying to make sure that they really are involved with that child to the point that they’re helping them start learning how to practice on their own. But they need so much reinforcement at the very beginning and just making sure that the sound at home is the correct sound. That’s challenging, and kids are so busy today. I just would like for them to be able to pull themselves together with their parents and make that music even more beautiful.
I think getting them to the point where, around 6th and 7th grade, the parents are not as involved anymore. They’ve got to be practicing on their own. And then you see some great results because the child says, I want to do it.
Amy: What is one way that you’ve seen your studio or teaching evolve over the years?
Kathy: Integrating technology into my piano teaching. That definitely was. That’s a good one. That has always been something I love from the get-go. I really wanted to have keyboards in my piano studio because I love all those extra sounds that you can get. But it was more, I used those more for like playing ensemble work and stuff, multiple keyboards, turn on different sounds, let’s have some fun with the music, let’s play our scales together, let’s play these duets together.
So that, but then when technology got even more involved into things even like online teaching and learning how to do that was definitely a It was a huge challenge for me, but with lots of help from younger teachers like yourself and Carly Walton, yeah, her information was phenomenal. I found that I could do it and I loved it. It was like, wow, this is really wonderful and so we’re still using it today if a student can’t make it at the lesson at my house. Can we make it at your house? Absolutely. So I’m not losing anything. I’m not losing anything that way. So I was very fearful of that for a while. And now I’m not.
Amy: Isn’t that a great feeling?
Kathy: Yeah, it’s like I’ve got the rest of my life to get better at it. So I think that evolving has really helped me say, wow, I can keep doing this for a long time. But I think we as teachers, no matter how old we are, we have to keep learning. We should keep playing. We should keep performing. And that keeps us in a relationship with what the student is going through. Even when we’re fearful of getting up and performing, which I still do, I understand that with the students themselves,
Amy: being able to have that empathy and understanding. Yeah. It’s easy to forget.
Kathy: Yes. I’m just so glad that I didn’t give up that. I kept trying. I still have more ideas to come through to go ahead with my life. I always tell my college students before I said you go through college for four years and you’re going, okay, I’ve got all these ideas and all these dreams, and I said it’s gonna take you a long time, maybe a lifetime to evolve all those dreams, but let’s go on from there So when I retired, it’s like I think I’ve fulfilled all my dreams. What am I gonna do now? But look, it’s happening, So it’s exciting.
Amy: Do you have any little memories or stories that you can share of our times together and be nice?
Kathy: The one thing I really remember about you is you came in, and you just were a fireball. You just really wanted to play the piano very well, and you had skills, and then you had some, but there were not. So good. So we had to start all over probably with scales. I don’t exactly remember, but most students come in and their scales and their chords, and their arpeggio routines are just not up to snuff. So we really have, we had to work on that hard.
But my memory of you is for your senior recital, I played the prelude in G minor by Rachmaninoff, and you immediately fell in love with it, and as a teacher I go, This is probably beyond what she can do, but I’m gonna show it to her anyway. And as a teacher, you’re going, I think she can do it. Maybe not, but you took a hold of that. And after we got started, I kept thinking, Oh dea,r maybe this wasn’t a great idea.
Maybe I’m a terrible teacher because I have given this very difficult piece to her. But you said, no, I am going to learn this. And you did. I was never so proud of anyone as much as I was when you did your senior recital, and you pulled that off. It was fantastic. So I loved you – you just won’t give up. I’m going to work harder on this. I’m going to play this. That was wonderful.
Amy: I don’t remember any other songs that I did for that recital except for that one. Yeah.
Kathy: That was great. It had turned out that I was right.
Amy: And I understand that feeling now as a teacher myself; yeah, you want to give them that challenge, but you want to make sure that it’s also achievable for them. And I remember that feeling just even at school, I wanted to be that person that could sit down and play and wow everybody, and that that song wowed everybody. That song wowed everybody. And I’m afraid that’s part of my personality, too.
Kathy: I want to wow people with this beautiful music. I didn’t write it, but I would like to reproduce it for you to hear,
Amy: and I do remember that about you. I remember coming to you and knowing that there were deficiencies and you pushed me. I remember going to the ringer.
All right. So, today’s final question is a big one. If you could get the entire world of piano teachers together as your audience in one place and make one statement or one plea to them or one bit of advice, what would that be?
Kathy: Two weeks ago, one of my precious little students came in, and they drew me this picture, and on the side, it says, I love with a heart, music, and the piano. And it also says music is the best. If I can tell anybody anything, that’s what I want to incorporate in a child in any kind of students that I’m teaching. If I can, in some way, instill into them, an opportunity for them to really understand music and go away, loving it and saying, I love music. I love the piano, and loving the teacher is good, too.
But that opportunity takes a lot of thinking on your own life how you’re going to treat these students. Patience. Always thinking about what they need. Every student is different. Look at them as individuals. Try to fill their needs with your music. So when they get out in the world, they can use it for whatever purpose. My hope for You get a chance to have someone tell you that they love music because you helped them do it.
Amy: Thank you so much for being on the podcast today, Kathy. It’s been such a treat getting to catch up with you and getting to share my piano teacher with all my listeners.
Kathy: Oh, I’m so glad to do it. I hope that we all get a chance to just continue sharing music wherever we go, at any age.
Amy: My final conversation today is with Dr. Lori Roden, who I studied with when working on my master’s degree at Ball State University. Dr. Roden is Professor of Piano and Coordinator of Group Piano and Piano Pedagogy at Ball State. She holds a DMA in Piano Pedagogy and Performance from the University of South Carolina. Her research interests include sight reading and performance pedagogy.
Welcome to the Piano Pantry Podcast, Dr. Rhoden. I’m so excited to have you today.
Lori: Thank you so much, Amy. I’m really thrilled to get this chance to catch up with you.
Amy: I never know, do I call you Dr. Rhoden or do I call you Lori? Sometimes I call you Lori and sometimes I say Dr. Rhoden.
Lori: I think you can call me whatever you’re comfortable with and you can switch it back and forth even if you want.
Amy: I think even when someone’s your teacher, they’re always like forever your teacher, so you’ll always forever be Dr. Rhoden,
Lori: happy to be Dr. Rhoden or Lori.
Amy: Why don’t you go ahead and tell the listeners a little bit about your background and how you came to where you are today in your career?
Lori: Sure. I grew up in a family that had a fair amount of music in it. My mother was an amateur singer and my sister, who was three years older than me, was already taking piano lessons. So it seemed like that there was always a lot of music. We were involved in our children’s choirs at church.
Pretty much the earliest I remember is that my older sister was taking piano, and I decided I wanted to take piano lessons, so I started piano at age seven. I seemed to really take to it right away, and then started playing the flute in, I think it was either fifth grade, sixth grade somewhere along then I started playing the flute and got in the band, and was in the choirs at school.
So music was always a part of my background, but I didn’t start out intending to be a piano professor. I always felt that I wanted to be a university professor. And my mom told me that when I was a child, I told her I was going to be a music teacher when I grew up. But I was heavily involved with band and choir at school and I was always a take charge kind of person and leader type.
So I guess that made me gravitate towards being a conductor. So my undergraduate degree is in instrumental music education. And my first job I was the middle school band director. So most piano teachers didn’t start out that way. But after three years of being a middle school piano teacher, I missed the piano too much. Then I turned my direction, or my intentions, back to the piano and had the opportunity to get my master’s degree and my doctorate. I have been really fortunate to have had college teaching positions at three different institutions since then.
Amy: You probably had told me that before that you used to be a band director like at first, but I was the same way. I started my career in music education and did the choir director thing for three years in middle schools and high schools, and then went on to do the piano teaching thing. I didn’t realize that we had that in common.
Lori: And I think that instrumental music education degree, or any music education degree, whatever the emphasis is, I think it really is. It’s incredibly informative in all teaching, in all music teaching and certainly has informed all of my piano teaching as a result too.
Amy: So what do you think it was that really drew you into the piano teaching and out of the band? Was there something, I don’t know, that made you decide I’m going to be a piano teacher now?
Lori: I think part of it was that I just miss playing the piano and I missed having that opportunity to make that more of a focus.
The other thing is that I really felt like at the time. I left my middle school job, and I really wanted to consider the possibility of teaching in a Christian college, teaching piano, or teaching music. And I also considered the possibility of taking a position as a church music minister.
So I decided to pursue my master’s degree at Southern Baptist Seminary with the opportunity to study piano with Maurice Hinson, and I knew that would prepare me for both teaching in a Christian college and if I made the decision to become a teacher.
As a minister of music in a church, especially at the time since I was an instrumental or an instrumental music educator, I could see myself working primarily in the instrumental side of a church music position. So I knew both of those options interested me and I was really fortunate when I finished that degree that I got an offer to teach at William Carey College, which is a small Christian college in Mississippi.
Most of all, I did a lot of different things because of my background. I taught piano. I also taught music, all of the music methods courses for the instrumental music education program, and some of the music education courses. So I was putting a blend together of those things and Doing a lot of different things.Then, I just decided at that point that it was time to bring my focus back to piano. And that’s what I really wanted to concentrate on.
Amy: So what’s your favorite thing about piano teaching?
Lori: I think, as a huge extrovert, that just the opportunity to interact with students on a daily basis is my favorite thing. And if I get to combine teaching and working with people with my love of music, it’s like the best of both worlds, being able to watch students grow, especially and seeing the light bulb moment.
I think back to when I was doing my internship for my undergraduate degree. I was working with a high school band in South Florida, and I was also teaching in a theory class there, assisting the teacher there in teaching theory. There was a young man named Brad, who I can still remember, and he was struggling with some of the theory concepts. I was; we were working hard to help him understand that. And I remember that one day, he came into the band office, slammed his books down on the counter, and said, I got it! And so we had the opportunity to celebrate that he’d had a light bulb moment of understanding some of those theory concepts that had eluded him up until that point. And this opportunity to watch students be successful, learn, and grow. This is one of the things that I enjoy the most about teaching.
Amy: For sure. I remember one of my undergraduate teachers in the early days of my first days of college saying that being a music major means that you never have to do a job. That you always get to do something that you love because you get to make music a part of your life and a part of your profession. And just impacting students just makes it even better.
Lori: Yes, and actually this week I, in several lessons, I just sat back and listened. Our students, my students, were preparing for our piano studio recital this week and for their juries, and I just listened to them play, and I just sat there and marveled at how much they had grown this semester. And it was just so nice to sit back and just enjoy their music and to think, wow, I get to do this for a living. This is just pure joy.
Amy: What is one book or resource that you have had impact your own teaching or that you’ve seen impact other teachers that you’ve worked with in your pedagogy program over the years?
Lori: I did my doctorate at the University of South Carolina. I was in the last class of pedagogy majors who studied with Max Camp. Before he developed an illness and had to retire and then eventually passed away. And one of the things that Dr. Camp brought into my teaching life was a concept of leveling elementary stages. He, I’m not aware of another system like this that specifically targets the elementary level. And when I really began to understand this and began to incorporate it in my teaching, I found that it had so many applications in so many areas.
First of all, I wanted to make sure that I knew what it was that I wanted to teach. Irrespective of any method book or any supplementary material, I knew what my concepts and skills, goals and objectives were that I wanted to teach and that made it impossible for me to help develop students from the ground up to help those who need remediation, who need to go back and work on, especially their reading process.
It helped me evaluate materials more effectively. And just felt, gave me a sense that I had a real understanding of what we might call a curriculum. So this was detailed or outlined in his book called Teaching Piano, The Synthesis of Mind, Ear, and Body. That philosophy has probably helped me more than anything else.
Amy: I do remember that book, and I still have that book, and I’ll try to find a link online that we can post in the show notes for readers, or for listeners, not readers, for listeners if they want to check out that book. What is something that you find the most challenging as a piano teacher?
Lori: One of the wonderful things about being a teacher is that every student is different. Every class is different. Every year is different. Every, everything that we’re doing is different, but that can also be a challenge because sometimes it’s difficult to know exactly what a student needs or to be using things, methodologies, tools, et cetera, That you know have been successful and it’s still not really working with this particular student.
I think that trying to help students who appear to be struggling, even though they’re trying. That can be a little bit of a frustrating experience because I just really want to help them. And sometimes, the other thing that’s happening right now is it seems like so many students are struggling with so many things outside of the piano lesson they’re having so much to deal with in the world. And it’s heartbreaking really to sometimes to hear. I want to see those students and wish that I could fix those other things that are influencing them.
Amy: For sure. And I remember when I was with you, one phrase, and I’ve alluded to this phrase before, maybe even on this podcast, you always would say to me, we’re like doctors, Amy. We have to assess what’s going on with the patient and then figure out how to help them from there, whether it’s technical issues or whatever it may be. That’s one phrase that I’ve always taken from you in my own teaching and life.
Lori: Great. Glad to know that was helpful for you.
Amy: So what is one way that you’ve seen your own studio, or maybe even teaching, evolve over the years of your career?
Lori: I teach students of all levels. I’ve had students as young as five and students in their 80s. And so I really enjoy teaching students of all levels at the university here. I’ve taught all of our bachelor ‘s, master’s, and doctoral level students. But in general, most of my teaching is more towards the undergrad population.
And I guess in terms of evolving or, as I’ve watched my studio change, I’d like to think that I’ve gotten better at really diagnosing what their problems are. And we’re talking, of course, pianistic and musical problems here. But I feel like I have a whole lot better understanding of what I think is happening there when I’m listening to somebody play and watching them play. And how I can help them.
Amy: That’s great. Do you happen to have any little memories or stories that you remember from our time together when I was with you at Ball State? And be nice.
Lori: First of all, let me say that when thinking about this question, the thing that came to mind first was that you were always just a ray of sunshine.
Amy: Aw, that’s so sweet.
Lori: Just like you are now, just always such a bright, happy smile and bouncy personality coming into my studio and bringing joy to me during the day. I think that academically, things that I remember about you are just your great energy and your enthusiasm, your excitement for learning. You certainly made excellent progress as a pianist, and I really enjoyed watching you grow in that area and teaching in the piano pedagogy classes.
So I, Yeah, it’s so it’s maybe the word is almost infective for a teacher that when you have a student who really wants to learn, it’s like it energizes you as a teacher to want to teach and to want to do your very best to give them as much as you can. So I always felt that.
And of course, I have to bring up the semester studio parties that we used to have, especially the one studio party where you were sick and you had lost your voice, and you were trying to play Pit, which is a game that, that it’s a card game that depends on an assertive talking in terms of trading, like trading commodities and I’ll never forget you were trying to trade your commodities, like, barely being able to whisper. So, that was one of those fun studio party nights that stuck in my mind.
Amy: I can picture the whole scene. I remember that, but I had forgotten that I had lost my voice when you, as soon as you said that. Oh, that’s funny.
So, could you get the entire world of piano teachers together as your audience in one place and make one statement to them or one plea? What bit of advice or plea would you put forth to the piano pedagogy world?
Lori: First of all, this is a daunting question. Because I would want to sit at the feet of each of these piano teachers and let them teach me because, certainly, there is a tremendous wealth of experience, especially among independent teachers who are, shall we say, in the trenches every day and just have so much experience and so many wonderful, wonderful ideas.
So I guess maybe the first thing that I would say to them is thank you. Thank you for being a teacher, for giving to all of us because all of us who are piano teachers, somebody taught us at one point. And I think about my dear piano teachers over the years, and how they just helped me love music and grow and develop. And it was always such a joy to go and be with these teachers. So I guess that’s the first thing that I would say.
I also think I would like to encourage every teacher, as I do with myself, to continue to grow and learn because as soon as any of us think that we have arrived or that we know everything about everything, or that The absolute only way to do something. I think that’s the point at which we can not be as effective of a teacher as we might have once been. There are so many great things to learn. And now we have, especially with the advent of availability through the technology that we have now. There are just so many things that we can learn from each other.
I guess I would just encourage every teacher to keep an open mind about different ways to teach things and different things to teach and be willing to learn and be willing to adapt and change because All of us can continue to come back and become better teachers every day. And that’s what I try to do. Try my best. Every day, every semester, every student to just try to be a better teacher than I was the day before.
Amy: Absolutely. It’s remembering our ABCs. Always be curious.
Lori: That’s a great way to remember. Yes.
Amy: Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today, Lori. I have enjoyed catching up with you and sharing you with all my listeners.
Lori: Thank you so much. And let me say before we leave that. All of us at Ball State University are very proud of you as one of our graduates, and it’s been just such a pleasure to watch your your entry into the profession and everything that you’re doing, including this podcast and your blog and just all the ways in which you’re being heard. A teacher, not only to your students but also to other teachers. We’re really proud of you, and it’s my pleasure to have this opportunity to speak with you.
Amy: Thanks so much for listening in today. I hope hearing me connect with my piano teachers has warmed your heart and helped conjure up many, hopefully, happy memories of your own. Folks, that’s a wrap for 2022. It has been such a pleasure serving you over this past year. I hope you have been touched, inspired, and encouraged listening in, whether it was a small handful of episodes or all of them.
Since we are in a season of giving, it would mean a lot if you could take a brief moment to jump into Apple Podcasts or whatever app you use. to rate and review the show. As I plan for the next season, I would love to hear more from you. What is it you especially love and have found helpful? Is there anything you would like to hear more of?
If you feel more comfortable sending me a voicemail, you can do so through the link in the show notes. I might even feature your voicemail message sometime. If you’re unsure how to leave a rating and review for the podcast, Visit pianopantry.com/podcast for a few screenshots that will walk you through the process.
Easy peasy. I’m Amy Chaplin from pianopantry.com, and you’ve been listening to the Piano Pantry Podcast. See you next year.
